• Jerrid P. Kalakay

Episode 39 - Ashoka U on Teaching Change Series with Hattie Duplechain

On today’s episode, we continue our special series Ashoka U on Teaching Change with Hattie Duplechain, Research and Evaluation Specialist at Ashoka U. Hattie shares her own journey into change-making through the K-12 system, her role, and the process she helped lead in writing the upcoming Ashoka U publication

Preparing Students for a Rapidly Changing World: Social Entrepreneurship, Social Innovation, and Changemaker Learning Outcomes. 


Research and Evaluation Specialist, Hattie leads measurement efforts for the Ashoka U team. Hattie focuses on cultivating and working in partnership with Ashoka U’s research community to document the effects of changemaking education and share learnings through knowledge products. Before joining Ashoka U Hattie worked as a primary level teacher, initially as U.S. Fulbright grantee to Nepal and later as a founding teacher at a Nashville, Tennessee middle school. Hattie began her work at the intersection between social innovation and higher education as a Vittana Fellow, supporting the microfinance organization’s work to fund higher education internationally. Hattie holds dual B.A. degrees in English and Communication Studies from Clemson University and an M.Ed. in International Education Policy and Management from Vanderbilt University.


40 Conversations about Changemaker Learning Outcomes

3 Critical Questions Changemaker Learning Outcomes Can Help us Answer 

Recommended Evaluation Resources_Summer 2018

#ashokau #exchange2019


Jerrid Kalakay 0:00

Welcome to the teaching change podcast where we explore she's social entrepreneurship, education, and innovation. I'm your host Jerrid Kalakay. On today's episode, we have our second installment of Ashoka U on teaching change series. Today we're speaking Hattie Duplechain, research and evaluation specialist at Ashoka U.

Addy, welcome to teaching change.

Hattie Duplechain 0:00

Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Jerrid Kalakay 0:00

Yeah, we're really excited to have you. Now, I'm going to give you a chance to introduce yourself, but obviously you're showcasing you. And for the series, we're doing a showing you on teaching change. And so really excited to get a chance to talk with you a little bit and to meet with you. Before our listeners, why don't you introduce yourself and kind of what your role is that Ashoka U and someone?

Hattie Duplechain 0:00

Sure, so like you said, my name is? How do you do? I've been with Ashoka for about four years now. I work as the research and evaluation specialist started as the knowledge curator. And my background is actually as a K 12. Teacher, I started my career in the classroom. And over the course of the time that I spent working with students and hearing from students about the challenges that they were seeing and feeling and kind of the education system and the barriers that they were recognizing, inspired me to start thinking more deeply about what it means to kind of catalyze change in education and was really excited to join the OQ team and be a part of this network that is having that conversation.

Jerrid Kalakay 0:00

That's awesome. So my hat, my hat goes off to you for being K through 12. educator, we talked about that field and that work on the teaching change before it is a selfless pursued sure. And I would never be able to do it myself. So

Hattie Duplechain 0:00

I loved it is I mostly primary level. And I spent a lot of time in fourth and fifth grade, which is lots of fun. So

Jerrid Kalakay 0:00

awesome, very cool. And so you were you're in K through 12, education, teaching fourth and fifth. And then showing us opportunity kind of came about. And for this was four years ago.

Hattie Duplechain 0:00

So I spent about four years in the classroom, went back to graduate school to better understand the kind of education systems and the intersection between kind of education and social innovation and social entrepreneurship. So I got my degree in International Education Policy and Management at Vanderbilt University. And about halfway through that program, I had the opportunity to intern with you. And so I joined the team to help build out the comments, which is our online incubator for faculty and staff. And then the opportunity arose to stay on and so finished up my degree and joined the show QT and full time, and so have pulled on a lot of the expense, but I hadn't classroom kind of hands-on experience, using evaluation to afford informed the work that I've done. And then the knowledge that I built in the graduate setting about research and evaluation to step into the research and evaluation focus. Well, let me show you.

Jerrid Kalakay 0:00

Oh, very cool. Very cool. And have it Have you always wanted to kind of impact change or change-making education? That's something you thought about you, you know, your younger years?

Hattie Duplechain 0:00

That's a good question. I think that I was always really, really curious, always really looking for trying to understand how things worked. And when things didn't work. I wanted to understand why and what to do with doing about that. And I think that's a big part of what drew me into the classroom was engaging with students that were interested in kind of understanding and understanding the experiences that they were having. And thinking about the challenges that they were grappling with and that we were being correct, collectively grappling with what it means to kind of pursue solutions. But I think that what really inspired me and actually led me to conversations about social innovation and social entrepreneurship specifically was when I was in the classroom, and I was seeing, seeing and hearing from students about those systemic barriers, I started looking for others who were trying to figure out what it meant to address those things, and stumbled upon social entrepreneurship just in my research, and realized how just how powerfully the approach that people were taking around kind of grappling with challenges together to affect social change was and was excited to dive in and learn more at that kind of at that social innovation education intersection.

Jerrid Kalakay 0:00

It was cool. And did your grad school mandate you do an internship? Or was that something that you decided you wanted to do?

Hattie Duplechain 0:00

It was a part of the program. So I knew so required to do an internship. But I had been interested in this yoga initial queue for a long time. And so was really excited for the opportunity to dive into kind of the social entrepreneurship and social innovation field and specifically work with a Sherpa.

Jerrid Kalakay 0:00

Yeah, and you and your internship were focused around the common virtual incubator or kind of change-making education. And so you are involved in the creation of the commons.

Hattie Duplechain 0:00

Yep. I worked with Scott and with DITA to think through the design for the kind of online experience to initially when we were talking about it, we didn't even know if it would be online, we knew it would be remote, but went through kind of from step one to kind of plan through the process, build out the content, think through what kind of community might look like. And then I think, after the first iteration that Scott and I have lunch together, at least stepped in and really has taken the comments and brought it to life. So

Jerrid Kalakay 0:00

that's awesome. That's it. That's a heck of an internship. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of your classmates weren't working on projects like that, although I'm sure they worked in great things. But that sounds very complicated. If you had to put that into a paper for an internship supervisor and explain like, yeah, I'm doing this virtual distance learning thing for this organization that does change-making. Yeah, it's been fun. It definitely

Hattie Duplechain 0:00

wasn't isn't generally how internships go. But it was fun. And it was, I didn't want to leave. So here I here.

Jerrid Kalakay 0:00

Yeah. Which is awesome. I mean, yeah. So you did the internship, and then you had the opportunity to stay on? Yep. Was that it? Was that a tough decision to kind of leave the classroom permanently sort of speak, or at least, I was a permanently I mean, you're, you're still teaching but not in a formalized setting. Right. And, and most of your work is not in front of students, etc. And so that a lot of times, classroom teachers, or classroom professors have had that kind of draw, always kind of nagging at them to go back, and still have to break away and do something outside of the classroom.

Hattie Duplechain 0:00

Yeah, it was really difficult. And I definitely still miss working with students. And I think it's, it's been a really enriching experience to be able to take all that I learned in the classroom, and from my teaching experience, and from my students and up and apply it a different way. And I think it's been, it's also been really interesting too, and enriching to dive into a different kind of work from a different angle, still thinking within the context of education. But I do still feel that tug to the classroom. So I'd love to find in the long term way is to kind of get back involved with students. But in the meantime, one of the things that one of my favorite things about working with the showcase was actually connecting with the educators that we work with, and hearing about kind of what their experiences are in the classroom and what it means to be working with students what they have going on. And the learning outcomes guide has been or what we're calling preparing students for a rapidly changing world has been such a great opportunity to really learn from our network about what this work looks like in the classroom and what it means to be a change-making teacher or change thinking educator.

Jerrid Kalakay 0:00

Absolutely. Well, and your title, although doesn't I'm sure for folks that are outside of higher education or education, in general, or out of research probably wouldn't think it's the very exciting title, the research, and evaluation specialist. Yeah. However, folks that are kind of nerdy, like myself and other folks are in an IRA. That sounds like a really cool, a really cool title, and a really important job. So what do you do as a research and evaluation specialist for the show to you?

Hattie Duplechain 0:00

That's a good question. Lots of different things.

A lot of fun. I think that, as I said, a lot of my work really started with building up the comments. And I've been involved as we've launched the new Commons cohort. So most recently, we launched a cohort around evaluating to trigger education. And so that was a lot of fun to build out. And I think I've also been really involved in kind of building knowledge and data systems way to cut ways to kind of collect, collect, traps, not a great word, but ways to get our arms around all of the information that we're getting from our network on a daily basis. So they weekly on a yearly basis, and think through kind of how we store that how we can use that. And so everything from building out kind of online libraries and resource databases for different parts for the network has been a big part of what I've been doing. On the evaluation side, I think one of the things that I worked on was designing evaluation practices for our programs for a shaky program so that we it felt a little bit like or it felt a lot bit like we couldn't really dive into evaluation conversations with our network before we could we were evaluating and so my first year focused on evaluation was really about kind of walking through the process of kind of what is what are how do we articulate the goals that are shown to you have, how do we build a theory of change? How do we identify metrics for success? And how do we design tools that help us understand the progress that we're making through the offerings that we're creating, and so that that was a big focus? And then from there, the conversation shifted to a kind of well, what is evaluation look like, beyond a show to use work for a network. And I think that when a show q talks about the goals that we have for our work, it's not just it, they're not only focused on kind of direct impact, we're talking about impact with students impact with communities impact with a lot of people that were not directly interacting on a daily basis. And so evaluation has to reach beyond kind of that initial direct outcomes measurement. And so and I know that our networks really excited about better understanding the effects that they're having, and how we can continue to improve the work that we're doing, which is really what evaluations about. And so I think the last year, year and a half, and a big part of our learning outcomes guide work was really focused on kind of what's happening in the network, what are the needs of the network? And how do we create resources that support everyone, and working together to better understand the effects that we're having to measure in that work and use those results to inform improvement?

Jerrid Kalakay 4:25

Absolutely, of one of the toughest things about research and in general is, is what is worthy? Spending time researching, right? And then will your findings ever matter? Yeah, I think I think every scholar's biggest despair, it will spend years of their life researching something. And then at the end, no one really cares about it anyway. Yeah. I think everyone has ever written a dissertation comes a realization when, you know, they've got like, 60 people that have downloaded their dissertation. And that's it, you know? Yeah, yeah, I'm sure I'm, you know, probably master's thesis and etc. It's kind of like, you know, you put a lot of energy into something, and then it's maybe not the most exciting thing. Right. The other tough thing about evaluation is a lot of people evaluate, but they never use the results of evaluation to inform their practice. Yeah, right. I mean, this happens in the corporate arena and happens in higher ed, it happens in K through 12. It happens in nonprofits, right? We spend a lot of energy, evaluating things. But you never either one, we by the time the evaluation process is done, we're already halfway into the next term, the next quarter, the next year. And so we don't have a chance to look at it, or we don't know how to manage it in a way that's digestible to the people that are kind of doing the work. Yeah. So. So with that all being said, I'd imagine a lot of your work with a broken you have been figuring out how to evaluate what to reevaluate how to evaluate it, and then how does it make sense to inform our practice?

Hattie Duplechain 5:24

I think so what you're saying both about research and evaluation really resonates. And I think it's especially relevant in contexts where we're talking about innovation, and where we're working with people that are innovative and entrepreneurial, and are excited to try new things. And where change happens quickly. And sometimes Research and Evaluation can't happen quickly. And so thinking through what does it mean to create research practices and approaches develop, that are aligned with the way that kind of innovation is taking place in a context is been a huge part of the conversation and my role? And it's tricky to do. But I think that I'm thinking through kind of what does it mean to approach research and evaluation in a way that is aligned with these realities, is scoped to those realities? And is it ultimately actionable? Because I think in this space, we talk a lot about action has been tricky, because that's not necessarily how Research and Evaluation practices originally have originally been designed or approached. And so I think that my role has involved a lot of kinds of conversations around how do we innovate within the way that we're thinking about research and evaluation so that what we're creating is relevant. And is, but it's also fluid enough to adapt in, in a context where things change quickly?

Jerrid Kalakay 5:37

No, I mean, yeah, it's, it's a heavy load to carry the balance all those things. But in the work of change, making, it is vital, that we have good research and evaluation prophecies, right, because of the, as Marina mentioned, or in her episode, the concept of doing no harm is really important. And, and a lot of very well-meaning change-makers move in and move into communities of movement, the industry is a move into places in the world, and they want to do good, but they because they don't have a rigid, or a structured way of research or a structured way of evaluation. They're not even sure what they're doing matters. And worse, they may be doing more harm than good.

Hattie Duplechain 15:54

Absolutely. And I think about I think that's one of the many things I that you mentioned earlier that sometimes a title around Research and Evaluation doesn't sound like the most exciting or the most compelling thing. But I think that what you're talking about is one of the reasons that I'm most passionate about doing this work is because I think everyone comes into this space, wanting Cade with the best of intentions for students are the communities that we work in and collaborate with, for the world broadly. But we want to make sure that the actions that we're taking are going to have to go to align with those intentions are going to achieve the results that we're collectively deciding are what matters or what is important, what's going to help improve things. And I think an evaluation is such a powerful tool when designed intentionally for understanding kind of what's actually when we make these choices, what is actually happening. And I think the design process for evaluating can help us to can also really help us to think deeply about what it means what the actions that we're taking in the first place and what potential results might be. And so I think that it's not only in the kind of getting the results and then making the decision, but it's really in the bringing the community together at deciding what the intentions are in the first place, what those learning outcomes are those collective goals are, which is the first step and evaluation process is critical. I think thinking through all of the potential actions that you might take based on those goals and how you may measure progress according to those actions is critical. And then get collecting those results hearing from the people that you're working with. Through it throughout the whole process of any actions that you're taking critical. And then the results, in the end, are helpful for understanding what happened over the course of this experience, not from your own perspective, but in a really collective way. And is really powerful and thinking about well, what does it mean to iterate? What does it mean? What worked really well, but also how can we make sure that we're continuing to do better do the best that we can. And so I think when people think about evaluation, they often think about those results at the end. But it's really a process that can be powerful, and every step that you're taking along the way for making sure that we're having the kind of impact and that we're working together in a collective way to have the kind of impact that we want.

Jerrid Kalakay 18:39

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, with good evaluation processes, we could really devote limited the limited resources, we all have, to the things that actually work and, and not the things adult. So it makes I mean, it makes perfect sense, it's just such a, it is a very difficult thing to write, you know, to wrap a lot of people's heads around, which, which is one of the main reasons why I am super excited about the learning outcomes publication, it's coming out. And because I think that will really help everyone in the field, create better, better educational opportunities for students, and ultimately, really create more changemakers. And so I know that you were one of the main drivers of that. Tell us a little bit about what the guy is going to be to what the publication is going to be. And kind of what you hope to see for it to be able to do as an impact.

Hattie Duplechain 19:35

Sure, um, so really excited about the resource. And it's called, or it's titled preparing students for a rapidly changing world social entrepreneurship, social innovation and changemaker learning outcomes, I tend to call it the learning outcomes guide, or the learning outcomes resource for short.

Jerrid Kalakay 19:53

title, the formal title

Hattie Duplechain 20:00

doesn't equate roll off the tongue.

Jerrid Kalakay 20:03

One more time, hey, students,

Hattie Duplechain 20:05

preparing students for a rapidly changing world, social entrepreneurship, social innovation and changemaker learning outcomes. Um, and I think so, the plan for this resource really came out of conversations that we were having around evaluation, we were talking to lots of lots of educators and higher education innovators, about the need for evaluation, the kinds of evaluation that they wanted to create. And we started looking for examples of this work, and Changemaker evaluation taking place across higher education. And there's some but there's not that many. And when we talk, you started talking to people about well, talking to people about the challenges, one of the challenges that emerged was that there isn't always clarity around what kind of initial goal-setting step, there isn't always clarity around kind of what is learning out their cotton, say think that people go into kind of the educational design process and the end, they know which direction that they're moving in, and the class knows to. But I think that being able to really clearly articulate those goals, makes the event is critical. It's a critical first step in the evaluation process. And so it became clear to us that Oh, and the other part of that is that as we were talking to educators, we did have learning outcomes. And there were lots. Another challenge was that it wasn't always easy to take a look at colleagues learning outcomes. And so to kind of get a better sense of what this work looks like, from one classroom to the next, or one institution to the next. And so, educators were really excited to get a better sense of what was happening across the field, so that they can benchmark how what was happening in their classroom against that, and adapt according to their own institutional context. Even more intentionally. And so we were really excited about creating a resource that could provide a picture into kind of what is happening across the field. What, what, what is learning outcome? How are people creating them? What are they generally looking like? What kind of qualities is learning social entrepreneurship, social innovation, Changemaker learning outcomes, focusing on? And so kind of these high-level trends, but then really dive in more deeply? Until what's actually happening in the classroom? So beyond kind of those high-level trends, what has what is the experience of walking through the process of creating a learning outcomes framework and applying it in the classroom? And so the resource has a couple of different parts. The first, the first section focuses on the kind of the why of change-maker outcomes. Why is this something that's important? How can this help us collectively move this education forward? and highlights a showcase perspective on Changemaker learning outcomes based on the experience that we've had across the network? And then set section focuses on trends? And so kind of, what are we seeing around the ways that people are developing and use it for cities went through the process of collecting frameworks from across our network, and take a look at trends in the common knowledge, knowledge, abilities, and mindsets that people are focusing on in their frameworks. And so we do some trends analysis. And then in the last section, we talked to educators. And so we have five spotlight chapters, where we dive into the experience of five educators around how they can give, why they realized learning outcomes could be really helpful, how they went about creating them, working with their community, working with their colleagues working with their students, how, what their frameworks are, they actually highlight the frameworks in the chapters, and then how they're applying them. And we also get into a little bit kind of what have they learned from the process? How are they excited to enter next? What are they think what's kind of the next step? And so you get some of the show perspectives, you get high-level trends across the field. And then you get to dive into classroom context, co-curricular content, co-curricular to some extent, context, of course, sequences. And we also look at learning a learning outcomes framework that is designed to function institution-wide,

Jerrid Kalakay 24:24

like that. It's awesome. And as a teaser, we're going to be interviewing the five spotlights on teaching change on each one of their chapters upcoming. So I don't want to give away. Yeah, I think it's gonna, it's gonna be great. And I don't want to give away too much. But I do have to ask you, why is change-making education learning outcomes important to talk about? And to know,

Hattie Duplechain 24:54

this? critical question? And there are a few different reasons. From my perspective, I think, when I think learning outcomes, change, making or otherwise are just a powerful tool for our clearly, clearly, deeply considering and clearly articulating our intentions. And so in kind of the rush of all of the work that we do on a daily basis, and all of the things that educators are doing in the classroom, sometimes it's hard to kind of carve out space and time to think deeply about, well, why are all of these things that we're doing together happening? And where are we trying to go? And I think that learning outcomes are a really powerful tool for reflection, for creating that space at the beginning of an educational experience, but also over the course of an educational experience. For, for making sure that we kind of come back to that why. And that we can design and implement in ways that are going to help us get there. And so I think that one learning outcomes are powerful, and help us get clarity and make sure that we're moving in the direction that we intend to. And I think another big reason that changes bigger learning outcomes is powerful is that it comes back to the conversation about language, which isn't something that I want to get into too much because it's tricky. But I think one of the things that makes this field so interesting to be working in is that language, kind of the way we use terminology. And the way that camp different campuses use different terminology is fairly fluid. And so when what one person might need to mean about change-making is different than what another person might eat about change-making. And, and the same with social entrepreneurship and social innovation, even if we're all trying to move in a similar direction. And I think that learning outcomes are a really powerful way to illustrate when we say change-making, this is the thing that we're trying to accomplish. And without getting into kind of the weeds of those definitional debates. And so it's really illustrative and it becomes a powerful way to communicate the work that we're doing. And that's communicating to other people that may not know about our work that's communicating to colleagues, but it's also communicating to students and the students that we're working with. And it's really I think, learning outcomes, and particularly Changemaker learning outcomes are really powerful for actually helping students understand kind of, what does it mean to be a change-maker? What are the things that we're all abilities, this knowledge, these mindsets that are going to help you get to where you're going, and learning outcomes are a really powerful learning tool? And I think studies have shown that students who understand what it what a teacher or what a professor aims to help students accomplish, or more likely to make more progress toward that. So a powerful learning tool.

Jerrid Kalakay 28:02

Now, that's awesome. And as you were talking about this doesn't, this image in my mind of like a tour group, and walking through like a gigantic building, and the tour is being led when you're talking about like, the different language that we use and, and sort of towards being led by people that are holding different signs in different languages, and they're moving in different directions. And so that everybody in the tour groups kind of going in all different directions, following different tour guides, you know, and when you're talking about like this, this publication with the learning outcome, it's standardizing a lot of that conversation, at least to have critical dialogues around where we're going. Because one of the things that's really talked about the terminology and listeners know, kind of my take on this is that the language and the terminology in higher ed mean so much. Yeah, but in practice, it means so little. It's one of those that's vitally important. And then at the same time, not important at all. Yeah. Which is was frustrating. incredibly frustrating, as someone engaged in the work, and then at the same time, kind of comedic, right. So by having the learning outcomes and putting it out there, you at least now move the field to a point where we can actually have a dialogue about what we're doing, how we're doing it, why we're doing it, so forth. And so now everyone can actually arrive at the same point to at least begin a conversation, you know, that like the tour group going down the road, now at least can arrive at the same location?

Hattie Duplechain 29:39

Yeah, absolutely. And I know you asked a little while ago, and I didn't loop back around to it. But you asked what I'm hoping this resource can do. And I think that's a big part of it. And we put forward a lot of our perspective, it shows us perspectives on learning outcomes, we highlight kind of trends in the field, we put forward the way that educators are approaching these learning outcomes. And all look different. But I think that's a good thing. And because I think that we all aim to accomplish different kinds of work. We're all working with students who have different aspirations and different educational needs. We're working in community contexts were how change-making will manifest collectively will look different. And so there's not an I don't think there ever should be 10 learning outcomes that are the Changemaker learning outcomes. I think it's really about kind of creating a framework so that we can have a dialogue about the letter, what are our priorities in the space? How do they look different from one place to the next? And what can we learn from those differences, so that we can collectively build a stronger education and just stronger change making?

Jerrid Kalakay 30:53

Yeah, absolutely image building a baseline to kind of build on right. Foundation, if you will. Now, I know this, this particular foundation in this in this learning outcomes publication, kind of has been in the works for about 10 years because a showcase is celebrating its 10th anniversary. Yeah. With that being said, though, how long have you been intimately involved in kind of integration in this document, because you've got, you know, 40 plus years of a showcase operations, you've got 10 plus years of a showcase you operations, you've got the five spotlight folks, countless folks in the show KU I mean, it is mind boggling to think about how many people were involved. And how many thoughts went into this. So how long have you been kind of corralling the cap to move this publication forward to in the very near future make to make it the debut so to speak?

Hattie Duplechain 31:44

That's a great question. I think. And it's also a bit of a tricky question to answer, right? Because the amount of times that I've been spending, collecting information and writing isn't really representative of how much work has actually been done that that little bit of time that I've been kind of right at collecting and writing, how it's not representative of what this resources. I think one thing that I think conversations about a resource like this have been going on for a really long time. With the show to you and across our network, I think before I joined the team, so probably about five years ago, the show que Changemaker campus network launched Working Group around learning outcomes. And so they did a lot of work thinking through learning outcomes on their own campus collecting frameworks, that different people across campuses were using and diving into what this learning outcomes work is looking like across campuses. And I think their work was really foundational for helping us shape you to understand the importance of learning outcomes, and what a resource like this might look like, um, I think outside of the show QU network, right condition OQ and our immediate Changemaker campus network, I think that there's a lot of other people that have been doing research around this. And so we say we have quite a few in our first blog post where we reach out to learn more about what other people have been working on, we saw quite a few different studies that have been done about kind of how practitioners are seeing kind of the critical learning outcomes versus how educators are saying the critical learning outcomes are what people tend to be pursuing across co curricular programming. There's, there are quite a few different articles, and I can share some with you if that'd be helpful to share it with the community. But

Jerrid Kalakay 33:37

I'm sure people, people that dig this, I'm sure would love to see whatever resources you have available. But you happy to put it in the show notes.

Hattie Duplechain 33:44

Yeah, happy, happy to share. Because there's, there's so much good stuff that came before we started to jump into this. But as far as when we want when we specifically started developing this resource, we put a call out to our our community through our blog, in I think it was November 2017. to essentially ask, who was working on learning outcomes, and to set up conversations. So I had about 50 conversations with people who are doing learning outcomes work on their campus, we're excited to share more over the course of November 2017, through early 2018. And that was it was a really fun way to get a sense of just what this work looks like across higher education right now, who was engaged, and what they were building, why they were pursuing the development of social entrepreneurship, social innovation and Changemaker learning outcomes and how they were using them. And a, what came out of that was a second blog post that we called, what I learned from 40 conversations about learning outcomes. But I think what we realized through those conversations as we were getting a lot of them, the why and the how, but we weren't really able to delve into the details of the what. And so in that second blog post, we launched a call to submit learning outcomes frameworks. And so we had about 30 outcomes framework submitted from across our network. And I think we received frameworks from maybe nine or 10 different countries. And so it was really exciting to delve into the many different ways people were pursuing this work across the different spaces, and from there, reviewed the learning outcomes. That's what we built the content in the resource around trends. And then we also pulled together a panel of learning outcomes. experts who have been pursuing work in this space, have deep roots in social entrepreneurship, social innovation, and change making education to help us review frameworks and select the frameworks that would be spotlighted in those last five chapters. And so we, their expertise helped us to identify kind of some of the things that seemed to be really powerful about the way that people are approaching learning outcomes that we highlight one of the chapters, so the areas, areas for growth in places that there's still a lot to do. And so we talked a little bit about that in the resource. And then they were also the ones that selected who we spotlight and those five chapters. And then from there, took all of that information and started writing it. So I spent quite a few months writing. And then after that went back out to share drafts with more people. And so got a lot of feedback from people that submitted information, we got a lot of feedback from others across the network that are engaged in different ways. And so this was really a collaborative effort. And I think we mentioned here and there that we've probably talked to, or worked with upwards of 200 people over the course of this process that have been engaged in learning outcomes work. And so it's, it's really a, we did our best to create a collective representation of the many different perspectives that they bring, and the amazing work that's happening.

Jerrid Kalakay 37:13

Mm hmm. Wow, that I mean, that's quite an endeavor, to kind of pull all those pieces together and try to be as comprehensive as possible. And then not lose focus as well. Yeah, event, you know, any of our listeners have been involved in writing, whether it be a textbook, or a book in general, or a dissertation or thesis or anything, I mean, when during the middle of it, sometimes you get a little bit confused, and you can go down a rabbit hole and end up in the wrong place or whatever. So it's, especially if you're working with colleagues, and as many colleagues, as you're working with, I'd imagine there was moments where you probably had to sit back and say, are we moving in the right direction? Or this? Is this really what it's supposed to be looking like? Okay, that conversation important one, but we're not going to have it now. We're gonna have this other one, or I'm sure there was a lot of that. That moment was moment.

Hattie Duplechain 38:06

Definitely. And I think one of the things, I think the fact that it was such a collaborative process actually made that part a little bit easier. Because it wasn't just me sitting with all of the information, trying to figure out how to aggregate it all and what might be relevant and what, how to leave things out. Because everything is relevant, right. But we can't write every day. And so I think I worked really closely with Jess lacks, who's our Director of growth and partnerships. And she did a lot of writing as well. And I think beaten sorry, and Marina, Kim, and Angie, fuselage, all we're really involved in kind of the draft day, and the editing process, which was really powerful. And like I said, we were also working with so many colleagues beyond the immediate show q team, that we're able to kind of take a look at dress to speak into kind of what was helpful based on their own experience, what we did, indeed, what we were missing, and that I the resource wouldn't be what it was, or what it is without kind of all of those perspectives. So it was really helpful.

Jerrid Kalakay 39:10

Yeah, and I'm completely biased, but I love it. I love it. I love it. I've seen obviously a draft. And I think it's gonna be really useful in my own in my own practice. And in my own teaching, I think it's really, really helpful. And I'm particularly excited about about the conversation can get started, or the conversation is going to continue. I think it's really exciting. And I for me and my practice, I think it will help me in communicating the value of this type of education, across disciplines, transdisciplinary, interdisciplinary, in order to to start to build even a greater and bigger network of folks that are engaged in it. So I'm really excited about it. I don't want to give you I don't want to get you to give away too much of it. But what what was your favorite takeaway from the experience? Or what was the one thing that you learned that you were like, Hmm, that's interest? I had no idea.

Hattie Duplechain 40:02

That's a tricky question to answer, because I feel like there's so many of those things. But I think that when I walked into this experience, I was really thinking about learning outcomes pretty narrowly. And I was thinking about them as a way to kind of an articulation of a goal in order to inform educational design and guide evaluation practices. Because that was my experience with learning outcomes. And I think what surprised me and what has made me all the more excited about kind of the promise of learning outcomes as a tool for this work is how much more broadly, they're useful. I think two of the two of the things that we talked about that I'm learning outcomes are really powerful for and that people across campuses are using them to do is one kind of open dialogues and create space to have conversations just like you were talking about with, with colleagues who maybe aren't familiar with this work with a faculty that are doing this work, but maybe a different way. Students who are really excited and have a vision for what they want to learn, but don't necessarily have a space readily available to articulate those things. Before an educational process begins. I think learning outcomes are a really powerful tool to open space, bring people together and create dialogue about what matters. And I think that I wasn't expecting that because I wasn't thinking about them as a tool for for community building and for alignment. But they really are. And I think another way that people are using learning outcomes. That totally makes sense, but I wasn't actively thinking about is a student engagement. I think then so many teachers are taking and professors are taking their learning outcomes and handing them to the students and saying, These are the things that were I'm hoping that we're able to do in the classroom together, what are the things you're hoping to be able to do in the classroom, and they're becoming a tool for having the for kind of bringing students into this their own educational process, helping students own that educational process. And they're becoming a tool for students to reflect on their own growth every time. And so we really saw learning outcomes is being used as kind of a tool for student engagement and student ownership in ways that were really exciting. So we talked a lot about that, too.

Jerrid Kalakay 42:30

That's awesome. So when one does and I know it's probably a floating deadline, of sorts, but when is the publication timeline? When is it going to be readily available for the masses?

Hattie Duplechain 42:44

So it is in the designer's hands right now, I think that it's set to launch at the exchange. And so right now it's available for pre sales on our website, if people are excited and want to jump on and purchase now. We should be if you're attending the exchange, they'll be available for purchase at the exchange. I think that after the exchange will start shipping broadly. And so I think the end of February is the answer. And it was floating for a long time. But I think that it's concretely now the exchange. So

Jerrid Kalakay 43:16

when I get when I purchase mine, can I have a Hatie signature on it?

Hattie Duplechain 43:21

I would love to say

never signed to resource before?

Jerrid Kalakay 43:28

Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, you're the you're the editor and and your whitelist, co author of the entire document. So yeah. Yep. And then, and then, you know, when you make it rich and famous, I'll say I need her to win. And I'll fill up. I'll show everyone your signature, and then I'll sell it on eBay.

So what is kind of in closing, what you're, you know, everything is exactly the way you want it to go with this document. And then Marina also shared with us that there's a second publication. That's a sister publication to this one around impact evaluation of impact. And so what, what is what would your goal be if you could sit back and go, Wow, that was a lot of work. But look at what do? What would it be?

Hattie Duplechain 44:29

So I think that, like I said as I said before, I think for me, evaluation is really about kind of deeply understanding the work that we're doing and continuing to improve upon it. I think learning outcomes are really the first step in that process. And I think in a perfect world, I think this resource would be taken and used to open dialogues across edge educational contexts with a whole community about what our educational priorities are and change making. What we'd like to accomplish together and how we can do that. And then it becomes a resource for people to drawn to plan that process. What does it mean to come together? What are the important questions to grapple with as a community? How do we come to a kind of prioritize the things that are most important? And then once we have what do we do with them? And so I really want it to be an actionable guide about for kind of determining what Changemaker learning outcomes might look like in an institutional context or classroom context or over the course, of course, sequence. I think that'd be really exciting. And then, as far as kind of the second resource you mentioned, they think we have plans in the works, to go back to reality where we started. I think this as I said, this whole conversation started around evaluation. And we realized that we needed this first part of the conversation around learning outcomes. And so that's really what this resource was meant to be. And then I think that what we're hoping the next resource can be and will help people in the next steps and that kind of evaluation process. So once you have those learning outcomes, how do you use them in a way? How do you design kind of tools to help you understand the progress that you're making towards those learning outcomes? And so it's just kind of a little bit of a preview. I think the idea is to in kind of a similar way, as we do in the spotlights to represent the evaluation practices that are taking place across different institutional contexts and different places across our network. And so I'm in the midst of collecting information now. So if anyone's really excited about evaluation and grappling with that on canvas, I would love to chat with you.

Jerrid Kalakay 46:46

Today we've been speaking with Hattie Duplechain, research and evaluation specialist at Ashoka you till next time, be nice and change some stuff

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